Designing Timeless Websites in a Fast-Evolving Landscape

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:10

Welcome to The Circle Sessions featuring The Circle Of Experts. The Circle Of Experts are Yasminee Robles from Robles Designs, Tonnisha English Amamoo of TJE Communications, and Don the Idea Guy. I'm Brett Johnson from Circle 27 Media Podcast Consultants. Each week, one of The Circle Of Experts joins me to talk about critical aspects of growing your podcast. We focus on marketing, social media, monetization, and website design to help you implement all of these together. This week, Yasminee is here from The Circle Of Experts. Yasmine works alongside clients to design a website that's driven by strategy, looks amazing, and that you can actually use to grow your podcast and then in turn your business as well. Yasmine, thanks for joining me today.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:00:51

Yeah. Thank you for for keep you you keep inviting me back so I can pass.

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:55

There's a lot to talk about about websites. I think this is, you know, bringing you in with The Circle Of Experts. You know, it's it's that podcasters and businesses need to really consider owning the land that they live on. You know? And that's the website. It really is. This is the one of the few things that you can actually own and make a difference, but there are a lot of things too. Just like owning a house, you need to upkeep it. And there are trends for homes.

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:20

And should you, you know, put the new looks and new windows and all all that, you know, inside and outside, that sort of thing. And leads me to the the, you know, the trends that are for website design. You know, designing timeless websites, it's ever changing. You know, those that you you kinda go around, you look going, oh, I love how that works and how it plays on on each other and such. So, you know, the world of web design is is always evolving. We see that as we as I mentioned, if we go to other websites. Before we dive in, can you share a bit about the challenges small businesses face when trying to keep up with those design trends?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:01:57

Yeah. So the challenge really lies in finding the right balance. And on one hand, you want to keep it fresh. You want a modern look, but on the other hand, the business owner might need a design that stands out, stands out and, stands to the test of time. So really striking that balance is where the magic happens.

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:17

Looking at trends, I guess, I'm looking at it from the standpoint of, is there something about considering this with the amount of traffic you get? Let's put it in. So, you know, the user experience is huge for trends and and the design and such like that. But if, you know, if if if you don't have a really huge amount of traffic and it's just a website to represent who you are, does that play into the trends a bit more than if you just it's a high traffic website?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:02:43

So I will say that when there is a larger site, you get a lot more traffic. When we do those audits or when we are redesigning a site, it's easier for us to say this trend will work for you or it won't work for you. We can test it out. We can run, AB tests, which we've mentioned in other episodes, which just means we split the audience and see which design works best. When it is a smaller client who has maybe less than 500 people Yeah. It's really more about what the client feels like they need in terms of the trend, and we might try to navigate it a little bit differently just because we don't have that those that information, those numbers. Now I do we do run across, some clients who they regularly do a refresh and they try to put all the trends in. But to be quite honest, and we're not we're not therapists or anything, but to be quite honest, sometimes it seems like there's something going on with their marketing or their business where they're not getting clients, and they feel like just putting a trend on their website is going to make all the difference when it could actually be, why don't we work on your SEO? It doesn't have anything to do with the colors.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:04:00

You do not have to have a rainbow or anything on your site. Let's work on SEO and the copy. It could be that we just need more backlinks, so which are links back to your site. It could be that they just need to go out networking. They're shy, they don't wanna do that, they think the website will do it all for them. So we do run across those and when we get a client who's looking to be more trendy, to have a site refresh, we really go through all of that and try to hone in on what's the real reason why you want to add a new trend or a new thing to your site.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:32

Alright. That makes sense. Right? Because I get it there's this energy around a new website. There always is, but but what what's the end run? Why? Why do you wanna do this? Why do you wanna spend all this money to do it when it really may not be the best spend of money? That makes sense. Yeah. So, of course, there are pitfalls of chasing trends. We kind of alluded that right now. Certainly, finding that magic Experts crucial.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:54

Can you shed some light on the pitfalls of blindly chasing design trends without considering that long term effect?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:05:01

Yeah. So it's kind of like chasing a moving target. What's trendy today will be outdated tomorrow. Businesses really risk losing their brand identity if they don't consider the long term effects of a design of design choices. And it's really essential to keep that in mind and make these changes strategically versus just on a whim.

Brett Johnson [: 00:05:21

Yeah. That's super insight. So how can businesses, podcasters, incorporate design elements that are both trendy and timeless?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:05:32

It's really about identifying the core values of the brand and weaving them into the design. Elements like color schemes, typography, user experience can be modernized while still maintaining a timeless essence. It's, it is a delicate dance, but if you do it right, it goes well. And you can look at some like, Coca Cola, Nike, look at the evolution of their brand and you can see how they strategically updated their brand and still kept to the core of their values. You can see how some companies, I think years ago, I don't remember if it was the Guy, made a design change to their logo and people just were not happy with it. I think it was them. I don't wanna put them down if it wasn't. But it's happened before where where companies make a change to a logo or a color scheme and everybody all of their audience is just like, no.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:06:24

This is not happening.

Brett Johnson [: 00:06:26

Right. Yeah. Well, that's a great analogy. There was some other business here just recently changed their their logo. I think it's LL Bean. If I I might be wrong too, but they changed it from a cursive look to just a font because they're realizing the younger generation can't read cursive.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:06:43

Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah. But I

Brett Johnson [: 00:06:44

think I think it's L. L. Bean. And, you know, in in a couple ways, that's just a shocker. It's like, oh my gosh. We have a generation that can't read cursive. And and and and you think about it, it's like, wow. What a negative impact it can on your on your logo that you have this brand for decades, and you have to change it just because there's a generation that comes up that can't read it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:07:03

That that's that's mind boggling if you think about it. But, you know, that all that put together, it's a delicate dance for sure. I mean, can you share any case studies or success stories where a business successfully navigated that ever changing design landscape?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:07:18

Yeah. So I'll share a a case where a business really embraced the modern minimalist design while keeping their, traditional elements intact. It really resulted in this particular business, it resulted in increased engagement and a refreshed brand image. So we basically went in there and just somewhat redid the logo. It was a refresh of the logo. So we didn't completely get rid of everything, but we just refreshed it. It was a logo that had been DIY'd, years ago, and they I think at that point, they only had one file size, and it was rather small. So anywhere that was that the logo was needed larger than a postage stamp, you could say, it became fuzzy, so it wasn't even the right format.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:08:08

They didn't have the working files, so, like, an illustrator file where if we needed to, we could export it out larger or smaller, make tweaks to it, make it less fuzzy. But what we ended up doing was really analyzing what the business goals were. Why were they trying to do this refresh? Is it just I mean, it was old. Could we could just, duplicate that, create a new file, and and have the same exact logo, or was there something that was needed? So with this particular client, we ended up refreshing the Don. So it was still a we call it a sans serif font, so it's basically the anti times new Robles. New Times New Roman has little divots decorative elements to the letters. So we just ended up choosing a little something a little bit more bolder. So it was slight tweaks.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:08:58

We simplified the colors. They had all the colors of the rainbow, and usually I say try to have no more than 2 colors on a logo, 3 maximum. But it really turned out well, and it was received well within their audience and just their, their leadership committee, everybody really liked it, and it's just something that we try to do is just to refresh it. We don't wanna take away from the brand identity and completely come up with something new, but we want to make sure that those core values are shown and that it is refreshed.

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:32

Yeah. I I I never really thought about the change just you could change with the font, the typography. That that in itself could be enough. It doesn't have to be the whole color scheme and and all that sort of thing. It just says little tweaks that way that maybe no one really notices, but it it's you can tell by the analytics in the end. Either people are staying on a page a little bit longer or, like you said, creating a whole new logo that's like, oh my gosh. A whole new world. Now we can use this logo for everything because it's it's it's modified, with with a little bit of tweaking here with the with the typography.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:04

That's fantastic. So

Yasmine Robles [: 00:10:06

Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. Let me just mention about the typography. A few years ago, the handwritten fonts were all the rage, and we would try to steer people away from having that in their logo because, or even maybe just as a headline, but away from the logo because logos can get very small and they can get very large. When it's larger, it's easier to read. When it's smaller, it'll get depending on the handwritten font or the script font, it'll get harder to read.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:10:32

But some clients really wanted that in there, and they've recently come back and they say, we can't make it any smaller than a a specific area because we can't read it. So then we refresh it. That's a bigger change going from script to something like sans serif and time or, serif fonts. Mhmm. And if I'm speaking in in jargon, you can let me know, and I can explain what those are. Guy, basically

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:54

I think people know that stuff. They just don't know what the family looks like, but they get the name. Yeah. I get you. So Yeah. For sure.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:11:00

Yeah. So that's a little bit different. Kinda like what you mentioned, I think it is all been where where they had to switch it up. But if it is just refreshing it so if you originally created yours with, whatever your computer had, like times new roman, we can probably pick a different Circle, still a serif font, but a little bit more refreshed, a little bit livelier. If you had colors that were all the rage when Myspace was in, like that bright pink, we can probably refresh it and make it a little bit more accessible, more friendly, to nowadays, maybe deepen it or lighten it, whatever we need. So it doesn't have to be drastic. It can be something refreshed, but still aligned with the values Yasminee the brand of the site. And then you are aren't necessarily chasing a trend, but you are modernizing.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:49

Now for our small business owners tuning in, what practical tips can you offer for navigating design trends while ensuring that timeless website look?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:12:00

Yeah. So firstly, really invest time in the boring stuff, which is understanding your brand identity. It's not pretty. It's not all the colors, but really understand what your audience expects from you, what their psychographics are, the demographics. Really understand them and then understand what you stand for, and then you can selectively incorporate these design trends and align with your brand essence. Really, you want the design trends that you are looking at to be the visual voice of your brand. So just like if your brand is casual and fun and maybe it's for a local bar, you want the design trends to align with that. And Circle vice versa, if you are a lawyer and you're like, we are timeless, we are we are here, we're structured, and then you see a trend that has a bunch of bubbles or, I don't know, something on it, you you will that will not align.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:12:52

So, obviously, that's a drastic example. But you really wanna understand that brand brand identity, understand your target, your goals, and then see what the visuals are that really align with that brand Sessions. And then regularly just update and refresh it to keep brand score intact.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:09

Makes sense. So we have design listeners out there listening. Sure. What tools and and techniques do you recommend for implementing conversion focused designs effectively?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:13:20

Yeah. So for conversion focused design, I really suggest, first of all, knowing why you're trying to what you're trying to change. So know that goal and then do a test run. So we in previous episodes, we've talked about AB testing. That's basically taking one change and another change and then throwing it out into the world and seeing what one set of audience thinks of it and another set. You could also survey your clients and see what they or your customers and see what they think of your current branding and understand that some of those clients are customers. Are they really your target market, or are they just did they happen to buy once or twice, but or are they hardcore fans? That'll also give you a little bit of information. After that, after you've done all of the boring stuff, that's when then you I would suggest if you are the business owner or if you are if you are a designer, but if you are a business owner and you say, you know what? I I don't know a lot about design, but I'm working with a designer.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:14:17

Go on something like Pinterest or just gather a lot of inspiration visuals, a lot take screenshots of what's on other sites, and create this folder of inspiration, whether that's tattoos, landscapes, paintings, anything, and really understand what draws your eye to each of them. Is that landscape painting, is it because of the colors? Is that tattoo because of the line art? Know what drew your eye to that. And then once you work with a designer or if you're doing it yourself, you can start looking at trends and how they align with these, with your goals, with your understanding of your current customers or future customers, and and then smash it altogether onto a website and design.

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:01

Yeah. So yeah. Wow. I mean and that's a lot, but at the same time, if you just do it over time, piece by piece, it's not that much to Guy. You know? But if it's a it's an ever ever evolving thing to to to stay on top of. So looking forward, what trends do you see emerging in conversion focused design, and and how can businesses stay ahead of that curve? It just sounds like a lot to stay ahead of.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:15:27

Yeah. So I from what I'm seeing and I can tell you a couple of the trends that I'm seeing for websites and and for logos, but really, if you wanna stay timeless, if you don't wanna continue to iterate, think about really the font that you're using. Make sure that it's readable so it's not really thin. When it gets really small, it's hard to read. It's not like a script font because that script font might be out of style soon. Think about if you really focus on conversions, especially for a website, think about accessibility. And can this font or this color work on the site, and does it reduce the easy to read, the the accessibility of the site, or does it really enhance it? I would say for conversion, just run a bunch of tests and see what works and and what gets people's attention more. Is the red button better than the yellow button? Does that gain more more momentum? A few future trends that I'm seeing that are coming up, they include being really focused on the typography of a site, so where the the hero section of a site used to be, which is the the part that you see when the site first loads, it used to be a Idea screen, beautiful image, maybe some headline and some text overlaid on it, but it was edge to edge, a beautiful image.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:16:46

Now it seems that again, it really depends on your audience and your your business, but it seems to be that a lot of these sites are becoming they're really utilizing the white space a lot more, and that hero section is like a very for envision, like a a chunky headline, chunky font, and really focused on the font, not on an image. The images might come in later, but it's really focused on this is my headline. This is what I do, who I do it for, and my passion. Click here to learn more. Again, it depends on your on your type of business. If you're an ecommerce site, you probably wanna put your product up there instead of just text. But if you are a law firm, for example, first of all, get rid of any skyline of whatever city you're in. I know in Columbus, Ohio, every single lawyer has Circle Columbus skyline, and I say, yes.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:17:37

Obviously, you're in Columbus, but that's not gonna make me trust you even more. Show me your team. Show me something else. That's a rant, but really look at what the image is that you're using, how you're utilizing, how is that white space. So white space or, open area is basically anything that doesn't have an image or text on it. Does it flow appropriately? It's a lot of the text that I'm seeing on websites is becoming larger, which is great for accessibility. It's becoming larger, chunkier, images might still be in there, but it's really focused on that white space around it and that flow. The other thing, if you're looking into conversions, one of the most basic ones is you can look at the z pattern.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:18:21

So we read from left to right and looking at okay. If I from the logo up at the top, if I go in a z pattern throughout the page, what are people seeing, and what are they reading, and how can I really where can I put these buttons and make them prominent in order to gain that conversion?

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:40

Alright. And and people think I I mean, I never really believed that for a while, but then I in regards to we have patterns that we follow. I I've seen this over and over as another example that there are patterns that we follow on a menu. Our eyes go and and and it it just does, whether the the menu layout at a restaurant, menu at a restaurant, whether the menu is laid out specifically to force you to go different directions, gonna go in a different direction. Where do you want them to go? And you know they're gonna do this, so where do you want them to go? Yeah. Or or do you want them to get out of that website? So, yeah. Any final thoughts or key takeaways you'd like to leave, with the listeners?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:19:24

Yeah. So if you are a small business owner and you're looking you're looking at your site or you're low, your printouts, and you're thinking, there's just something off about this. It it just doesn't seem to be working. Number 1, ask yourself, is is it really the marketing, the design, or is it that there's some, you know, is am I just doing the redesign because I wanna do it? And if you're like me, when you get stressed out, I start rearranging furniture. I think some of my clients do that with their website. So number 1, ask yourself that. Number 2, just start looking around and really understand who your customers are. Obviously, if you're targeting an older, older clients, for example, people that are one of our, current clients right now where we designed a site where it's for they're targeting seniors and seniors who are in transition.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:20:16

So obviously the site has to be really minimalist. Text has to be larger. But if she were to look at a Gen z site Gen z focused site, it would be very different. So she's taking into account this is a trend that I like, but obviously Guy clients might not necessarily find it as appealing. So keep a balance of that. And, honestly, Pinterest is great. You can save a lot of, images of of websites. You can keep it on your folder.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:20:44

And even if you have to wait to hire someone, maybe it's not in the budget yet, just keep that inspiration with you. And that way, when it is time, you can bring those back out and pinpoint what you love, what you didn't love, and make informed decisions based on that.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:00

That makes sense. Yeah. So it sounds as though, a listener who has website that they, you know, they're on that edge going, yeah. I really would like a change, and I don't wanna jump into it just because I wanna rearrange the furniture as, you know, your your your example. Can can you do an audit? I mean, how can they reach you to just have another pair of eyes going, yeah. We can take a look and see what's going on and, you know, go on the back end, take a look at the analytics and see what's going you know, that you've you've tracked for a long time. Let's see what's working, what's not. Maybe an overhaul is not there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:26

Maybe it is. How can they reach you to to start that process?

Yasmine Robles [: 00:21:32

Yeah. So we do offer website audits in a couple of different ways. We offer it for sites that are recently new recently launched, and then the that comes with more of a future future look at the site and helping you with content and planning that content, and it's almost like a road map. Basically, we're creating a road map for you and your website. The other one is for existing people who have been around for a while. They have their site. Maybe a designer created their site. Maybe they DIY ed it, but we really take a deep dive into a lot of aspects.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:22:03

And by we, I mean my team. We look at SEO, the the on page SEO backlinks, keywords, and, traffic. She looks at, social media and that interaction. What does it look like and what is it what analytics can be gained from that? And there's a ton more that she does. And then she also will create a 90 day content plan based on everything that we learned. It's basically going week by week. This is what you should post. This is what you should where you should post.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:22:34

Is it better on LinkedIn versus another platform? And that's one of the offerings that we've started to provide for people who they can probably some some of them can probably do a decent job on their site, but it's really that strategic thinking that they're missing. Not missing, but that they're that that piece that they're missing.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:52

Right.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:22:53

And, if you are like, that sounds great, Guy, no, not for me right now, you can always find us and download a freebie at roblosdesigns.com/checklist, and it's basically a simplified list of what things you need on your site. Or you can just reach out to me via either Instagram or our website, and I can run through your site and tell you what I think.

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:13

Good. Sounds good. Yeah. We're doing the same thing for podcasts too. It's some some auditing of podcasts that it's that, you know, you you podcasted for a while and things aren't growing the way they are. Maybe it's getting a little stale. We'll take a listen, see what's you know, what we see, holistically from the industry, the best practices. There's no right or wrong way to do it, but it like you said, you have to consider the audience.

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:36

Who's listening and what's not clicking if you're not seeing the growth that you'd like to see? And and it could very well be tied into the website that you have. So we bring in Yasmine with the website design as well too. So there are a lot of factors with, with what when you're, you know, creating that podcast, doing the podcast that, there's more than one way to promote it, and a website can be that way too. And we'll bring in Yasmine to look at that as well too. So you can, find all that information on my website, circle 270media.com. Yasmine, thanks again. This has been great. I love this episode.

Yasmine Robles [: 00:24:07

Yeah. Thank you for having me.