When Should You Invest in a Video Setup for Your Podcast?

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:00

Welcome to the Circle Sessions featuring the Circle of Experts. Each week, one of the Circle of Experts joins me to talk about critical aspects of growing your podcast. The Circle of Experts are Yasmine Robles and Izzy Dadosky from Rebel Marketing, Tonnisha English Amamoo of TJE Communications, and Don The Idea Guy. I'm Brett Johnson, My Podcast Guy from Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants. This week, Tonnisha is here. Tonnisha is on a mission to help small businesses level the playing field through her digital marketing solutions. Tonnisha, thanks for joining me again today. We have talked about this, with some potential clients, the conversation of the pros and cons of being visual with your podcast or whatever that means.

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:44

Adding a camera and lighting to what you're doing. You know, whatever you know, that's ultimately the bottom line, and then, you know, the destination and such. I I think in the past year or so, it's really been spotlighted of of jumping into that video piece to it. And that and and a lot of it is because they wanna get podcasters wanna get their content on YouTube, which is the second largest search engine behind Google, but Google Google owns both. But it's it's it's been a part of discussion points hugely. And I wanna you know, I think let's let's take a look at it from your point of view and my point of view too. There is no right or wrong answer to this. There isn't, and then we're not debating it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:29

It's that I think looking at it from two different points of view, we're probably gonna come up with a consensus of what I think we're going to at the end, but let's talk about that. So, from what you're dealing with, you've done a lot more video in regards to video creation, whether it's on YouTube or not. Let's talk about the the nuances of creating a podcast with video.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:01:48

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, we've seen podcasts with video like the Joe Rogan's of the world, a lot of the the bigger podcasters. But we've also seen it with, you know, micro influencers as well where people are adding the visual to essentially keep up with, like, TikTok or YouTube. And then once Instagram introduced reels, that was another opportunity to be able to share clips of your podcast to which we've talked about on our

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:18

podcast Mhmm. That, you

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:02:19

know, using taking clips from your show and putting it on social media can definitely help with visibility. And in some cases, some people prefer to watch podcast episodes where there's a visual. I'm a fan of, Shannon Sharp has a podcast called Club Shay Shay.

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:36

Mhmm.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:02:36

And it is a a visual podcast. I don't even know if it is available on audio

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:41

or not. Right.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:02:42

And then I have some podcasts. Like, for example, we've talked about crime junkies a lot where it's always been audio, but they recently just launched a visual side of their podcast. So we are seeing people do this as a way to, have content that is able to go on literally every single platform that's out there. So that can help to increase, visibility on social media. If you're using, you know, the visual for all of the spaces where visual is is needed and used, but then you also have the audio for the people that prefer to listen to it that way.

Brett Johnson [: 00:03:25

Yeah. I think a lot of I think that it's the shiny new object that people see in the video or they're seeing the Joe Rogans of the world, that sort of thing. It's like, when you're doing it, we need to look at doing that. There are a lot of decisions to be made before you jump into video. Yeah. And we just you just touched upon it. It's like, why? Why do you wanna do because I have these conversations with podcasters all the time, and I never discourage it. I wanna find out why you wanna create video.

Brett Johnson [: 00:03:52

What's the end purpose of that? And if it's just to just to just to, but there's no second, third, fourth idea behind it, then maybe you need to rethink that because the undertaking of doing decent video to really good video is a big jump. I mean, what we're doing right now here on Zoom is enough, but it's not we're we're not gonna win awards for it. It it's doable, but in the long run, it's not gonna get you any traction. Mhmm. You are going to have to take a look at a decent camera setup, a decent lighting situation.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:04:30

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:31

And and also I think it's that understand your listener. Is your listener really, or new listeners, really intrigued by video from you if it's just you talking heads?

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:04:42

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:44

I and I agree with you in the part of why you're in studio or why you're recording a Zoom, something like this. We do this a lot with this. I really don't I mean, yes. We repost this full interview for the sake of search purposes and such.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:04:57

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:57

But it's that looking at, okay, let's piecemeal what we talk about as as a reel, as, you know, little snippets that can be put on LinkedIn or social media platform that it it's a good marketing tool for the podcast. Yeah. And and and the realization, at least from my point of view, is I know I've I've always looked at it this way that if you're trying to promote your podcast on a social media platform Mhmm. You have to be in the mindset of why are you why is that person on your soul on that social media platform? They're in doom scroll or they're just, you know, they're wanting to be entertained with that scroll. You more than likely, odds are low that you're going to convert them at that moment to listen to your podcast.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:05:41

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:05:42

They're gonna watch the little snippet and kinda go, I should really I that's that sounds like a cool podcast. They may go to their their app and subscribe at the moment, but they're not gonna listen in that platform. I think the conversions that you think are gonna happen from doing video, short video reels and such aren't there. It's not the platform.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:06:01

I agree. And I'm even guilty myself of, like, you know, watching the clips and being like, oh, wow. That's great. But, like, what is what is gonna take someone from slip into the full episode. And and I also think knowing your why is important as well because with my Black Woman in Biz podcast, my why for wanting the visual was for content for social media. That's exactly why.

Brett Johnson [: 00:06:29

And that's perfectly that's perfectly legit. It just certainly is. You know? And and at least you know why you're doing it versus, like, well, everybody else is we need to. That's not a good reason.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:06:40

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:06:41

That's not a good reason because video is a heavy lift compared to audio. It's a heavy lift.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:06:46

I mean, even, you know, one one of the things that you have to think about, like you said, is cameras, lighting. So I highly recommend with my Black Woman in Biz podcast, I've done all of the production except for one episode alone. And I found that the camera that I have, it's a very old it's not, an updated camera, but the camera times out after about twelve minutes.

Brett Johnson [: 00:07:15

Mhmm.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:07:16

So I have to, like, listen for that sound and know that, okay. Now I have to, like, stop what I'm doing to press record again. I had one one episode where I had a couple people in the room to help monitor that. But now I know next time around, I'm gonna have to get a new camera. Yes. We're gonna have to have a team because that it it doesn't help with the flow of the conversation.

Brett Johnson [: 00:07:38

Right.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:07:39

Then, you know, you have to also worry about lighting. You have to worry about sound, having the right microphones. Another thing I found was that when we work together for for one for my, like, pilot episode, we found that the the mics the the jack wouldn't fit into my camera. Mhmm. So I had to buy an adapter piece. And even after that, I still couldn't figure out how to get the sound to work. So I have to kinda do a roundabout way to, like, pick up sound.

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:08

Yeah.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:08:09

So there's just all all these different things that that you have to consider. I guess I would say one of the pros is that sometimes people do like to see the host and kinda see the interactions with people. Especially, you know, I I listen to another podcast called Brilliant Idiots. It's Charlamagne the god, from The Breakfast Club, and Andrew Schultz is a comedian. So it's it's, funny. Definitely one of those, like, not suitable for work, podcast. But even though they have a visual, which, you know, sometimes if they're, like, talking about something that's happening in the room, I might pause the the listening thing if I'm at my computer and, like, get on YouTube just to see, like, okay. What is he showing him? And then I'm like, okay.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:09:00

And then I go back to the audio. So it's interesting, though, when deciding, you know, which podcast I listen to visually versus audio, like, which podcast am I, you know, watching while I'm cooking dinner versus listening to while I'm working. And I honestly think it really just depends

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:20

Yeah.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:09:21

On the listener, on when they prefer to listen to podcasts. If they consider themselves like, I've had people tell me, like, oh, I don't like podcasts. But, like, they tell me about things that they watch on YouTube that are podcasts.

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:39

Right. Right.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:09:40

So it Yeah. It really just depends on the person. You know?

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:44

Yeah. We don't wanna get stuck on the term podcast. Yeah. It it's you're creating content to do what you want it to do sort of thing. Yeah. Exactly. I had a networking opportunity with a gentleman yesterday and we were talking about the same subject about the audio. Not I don't wanna call it audio versus visual, but it's that why do you, the incorporation of it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:06

And he he mentioned, you know, some statistics in regards to that. There is some, visual aspect of us connecting with people visually, even if it's one dimensional.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:10:16

Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:16

So that could be a consideration that if you have a really good camera presence and you and that's part of your presentation of that. This is how people connect with me is because they see me. I I have that winning smile or, you know, whatever whatever it might be. Or you do have some background visuals that are part of your branding that really stick out. Yes. Then video should be incorporated, for sure. But if if you're doing like an an an, you know, the listener to this podcast, if you see the video, you see me, I just have a white background. Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:48

And to that point of me describing where I am, I I have to recognize there are big a few people that watch this video. I have to describe, don't use the background I have. Well, the the audio version of this, what are you talking about, Brett? So I just I had to describe it. So it while you're flowing with an episode, you have to remember, okay. If I'm going on both video and audio, I have to describe what I just talked about.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:11:12

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:12

And the vision the the video viewer kinda go, why are you talking about? Well, I have two different audiences to think about. It's another consideration.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:11:21

Didn't know until I started uploading, my podcast to Spotify, which figuring out Apple is always, like, annoying, so I've been kind of avoiding that. But, with Spotify, I didn't know that you could upload video and that someone can choose right then and there as they're in the Spotify app if they want to watch or listen or both or toggle back and forth between the two, which I guess you can also do that if you pay for a premium, like, YouTube, subscription as well where you can kinda go back and forth. But, you know, when you're thinking about that and you're talking about things in the room, being mindful that if someone is listening, they're not gonna be able to see what you're talking about. And I think that's why, you know, someone like Crime Junkies has done a great job with having their app for the people that are, like, super fans, where when they're talking about these cases and they're talking about evidence and maps, if you're listening in the app, you can actually see Yeah. Those things. And I think that also helps them truly own their audiences. So even if they decide, you know, if YouTube goes away tomorrow, they still own their reach. You know?

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:39

Yeah.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:12:40

Which which is so important. And we we've talked about that before as well.

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:43

Well and and you it's a good point you're bringing up in regards to the ownership. Mhmm. That with the audio form of the podcast, you own everything of it with your RSS feed even though you may be, you know, on a hosting platform, but you're still safe compared to relying on YouTube as your distribution. Or if YouTube goes down or goes away, again, more than likely won't. But, you know, at the same time, there's always that percentage of something happening. Mhmm. Your videos are gone. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:10

They're gone unless you house them on your.com.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:13:14

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:14

That again, that's a different price package, different concept of of where you want to be with that. Yeah. And and and and and we're also skirting the issue of, okay. Yeah. You can have your videos on your website, but that doesn't mean embedding a YouTube video. We're talking

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:13:29

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:29

Your website hosting those videos.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:13:31

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:32

That's a different price point for hosting. Yeah. For sure with your website. But again, if you're creating something that's that important that you want to control the destiny of everything, then it did I I heard this interview, the other day talking about the he built this entrepreneur built his business on three pillars for the content. And one was the website, one was a podcast, and one was a newsletter. All three he owned. No one can literally take them away from him versus relying on video, relying on, you know, something that can like like a TikTok. TikTok's been a great example of this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:08

TikTok can go away again. You know? There's been no rumblings about this amazing payoff. I I need to do some research about where this stands.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:14:15

Yeah. It's been very quiet.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:16

Real quiet. Yeah. Weird weirdly quiet. Honestly, it's like, where did this stuff go? That that was such a big brouhaha at the beginning of the year sort of thing. But again, this this episode may turn a little bit more negative than positive for visual, but but it I I think it's it's spotlighting what that platform, the video piece to it, you need to watch out for. Let's put it that way. I I I and I'd again, I've I'm working with clients that wanna do visual. I'm all for it because I think it is a contact point that a reach point that should be addressed done properly.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:53

It definitely reaches a different audience than audio does.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:14:55

Mhmm. Mhmm. It it it really does. And I think, you know, to that point, when it comes to thinking about the negatives, I think there there are if you if you really are dead set on the fact that you wanna have this visual piece to the podcast. I think a few things to think about is, you know, making sure that, if you're posting your video to different platforms that you optimize for the different platforms. So even with me, I'm recording on, like, a for for anyone out there, when I talked about my camera, I have a Canon EOS Rebel seven or something.

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:34

Mhmm.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:15:34

I got it during COVID when everything was on sale. Like, it's the perfect time. I'm just gonna get this, you know, get this camera. And so since I'm recording, in, like, landscape view, when I go to post a reel, I have to get creative with how I'm gonna post it to where it visually still looks okay. And I've seen people I've I've been in on other people's podcast where they have a production setup where it's, it's easier for them to create content for the different platforms because they have their main camera, then they have one camera on one speaker, one camera on another. So when it go comes to creating content, it's a lot easier. But, again, that that's a whole, like, production crew. Right.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:16:21

So just, you know, keeping that in mind, I'd love what you mentioned about the background right now. If you're listening, I'm sitting at my desk, so there's really nothing exciting going on behind me. But when I decided to add a visual aspect into my podcast right across from me, what you can't see is I I bought, some things. I had to create, like, a grassy background. I had to get some cool chairs and a table. So that was, like, you know, startup costs to get that up and running. So keeping the visuals in mind as well. Think about, you know, repurposing the content as much as possible because now you at least you have it if you decide to do visually.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:17:06

So how can you continue to to, repurpose that content to try to get the maximum amount of reach as possible, especially if you paid for a production crew, if you rented a studio, if you did all of that, you wanna make sure that you are using that content as much as possible. And, you know, look at the analytics and see what people like. Are people even watching the the YouTube that you made? Are people are you getting more downloads and listens on your Apple or Spotify or Google Play or whatever? And I think that will really show you what people are interested in. But if you still really wanna do video, then you have to figure out a way to get your just core audio listeners onto that visual platform Yeah. Where you're not wasting money.

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:02

Right. Being very purposeful. And and I think, one advantage if you've been podcasting for a while and you have a very good community that is interactive with you, general poll them. Ask them, would you like a video version of this? Would it be easier for you to talk about this podcast that you really enjoy in visual terms to share or whatever? You know, have that conversation with them because maybe a handful would say, yeah, I'd love to see what you guys are doing. Yeah. It'll be great, and and that sort of thing. But begin small. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:31

You know, gradually get into that. Don't yes. There's some money involved in regards to, like you said, you have to look at a new camera, but cameras you can you can get away with, a really decently priced camera that looks really good. I think it's that, you know, just what your setup is. What do you want it to look like? And it can continue to change and evolve over time,

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:18:53

and

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:53

and, and and make it work for you. But don't let the technology be a hurdle.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:18:58

Just

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:59

get it done and experiment and ask forgiveness from the viewers going, hey. I'm kind of experimenting with this. I'm glad you're here with me, though. The content's gonna be great with the visual. We're still playing around. They'll they'll forgive you. It's okay. Yeah.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:19:13

Yeah. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:14

It is. Because you did that probably with your audio version at the very beginning too.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:19:18

Right.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:19

Remember how you started, how rough it probably was Mhmm. Or potentially was, that sort

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:19:24

of thing.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:24

So, yeah, it it's, I think visual is a is an interesting realm to really consider.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:19:29

Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:30

And whether you've started and and you you brought up a good point too. You may have started with video, and now you're considering you go to audio. That's a that's a different mindset transition as well too. You can't necessarily take, well, I should say you can take the audio from the video and create an audio podcast, but we have to be cognizant of the audio listeners when you're talking about if you're referencing and talk you know, that sort of thing about, things that are in the room or things that your guest brought in or something like that, you're gonna start describing them. Otherwise, you're gonna really frustrate your audio listeners.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:20:05

Definitely. And I I have listened to podcasts where you can tell that the focus is so in the room that it's hard to connect when you're when I'm listening to the audio version of something. So you definitely have to keep that in mind that if you are going to have both, that you are catering to both and keeping in mind that some are watching, some are listening.

Brett Johnson [: 00:20:34

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well, we covered a lot of ground. I I'm hopefully, we balanced the pros and the cons. I think we did. Yeah. I definitely want to couch the cons with a it's just a warning.

Brett Johnson [: 00:20:43

Be careful of it. You know?

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:20:45

That's only you know, I would say, you know, I guess the the final verdict here is that if you're looking to, you know, go visual, it can help expand your reach because now it's not just audio. You have this visual as well. It can also help to, get more engagement with your content because you can use this as content now. Mhmm. And you can consider, you know, monetizing through YouTube and other platforms. Also, got a notification today from, Instagram. They're they're they just launched some, like, beta program Mhmm. Where they're offering to, like, to monetize content if it's engaging.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:21:31

We're kinda opening that up, so we may see that coming as well for content creators to get, money from Instagram. However, if you're looking for, I guess, less pressure, more ease of production, then audio may be best as well. And, you know, I I personally enjoy listening to podcasts while I'm working and doing other things. So just think about your audience, look at the numbers, and like you said, try it out. You never know. Like, it it might work. I think the the beauty of the podcast world is that, you know, it started as something small, but now we have, you know, huge celebrities like a Joe Rogan or Shannon Sharp who have podcasts. And and they're also testing out their setups and trying different things and and doing a combination of audio and visual and different stuff.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:22:30

So if if they can try and do you know, still be testing out what works for them, then I think we should too.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:37

Yeah. They're enjoying the freedom of what this Yeah. This medium can do to, you know, having fun and and bringing their talents to to a different medium. Exactly. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. If a listener wants to explore your brainpower on this a little bit more about, you know, what you know, anything we've talked about, how can they get a hold of you?

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:22:54

Yeah. You can go to my website, tjecommunications.com, and schedule a consultation, and we can talk more about this.

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:02

Yeah. And I'd love to talk to you too, listener. You can go to my scheduling calendar, mypodcastguy.com. I've got clients that are, you know, video only, audio only, mixture of both. The conversations are happening all the time, and we have this discussion that Tonnisha and I just went through about of talking about the whys and the purposes of it, because it is a great tool. It just has to come down to whether what what what you wanna do, whether you're ready or not, and and where should the podcast go for you. So thanks for joining me. This has been a great topic.

Tonnisha English-Amamoo [: 00:23:31

Yeah. Thank you.