Mastering Podcast Ad Campaigns and Listener Engagement in Ripped From The Headlines

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:10

Welcome to the Circle Sessions featuring the Circle of Experts. The Circle of Experts are Yasmine Robles from Robles Designs, Tonnisha English Amamoo of TJE Communications, and Don the Idea Guy. I'm Brett Johnson from Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants. Each week, one of the Circle of Experts joins me to talk about the critical aspects of growing your podcast. We focus on marketing, social media, monetization, and website design to help you implement all of these together. This week, Don is here with the Circle of Experts. He possesses creative powers beyond those of mere mortals. Don The idea Guy, rescues those in need of innovative ideas through his brainstorming sessions.

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:46

They are at 5 Buck Brainstorms. Don, thanks for joining me again today.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:00:51

Welcome. You know, we I've at least I'm realizing in the beginning we have the video going. So I'm like, we

Brett Johnson [: 00:00:55

should have a circle of experts. Yeah. I could I could I could circle it up, but it looks kind of

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:01:00

like a

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:00

Circle of experts. The the frame of the photo looks like a family photo. You know, those old circle frame, you know, frame kind of things. Doesn't have the greatest appeal for this Yeah. Software, but I agree though. You had some kind of circle in the background. I just

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:01:12

do it like the, have it stylized like the old Sears portrait

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:16

sturdiest. It's just like our

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:01:18

Circle of experts family.

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:19

It's pretty cool. Yeah. There you go. It's pretty close to that. It's pretty close to that. Yeah. Some really interesting stuff in the past, week or so, popping up in the news. And I know both you and I are in agreement with this news article that it's a good thing, the new podcast.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:01:35

Right? We're we're agreeing on what we're leading off. We're we're in harmony.

Brett Johnson [: 00:01:40

Yeah. So, new podcast debuts dipped in May. The number of new podcast launches continued to decline in May, falling to the lowest number in more than a year. And the doomsayers would say, oh, boy. The shine's the shine's gone. It's not it's not good anymore.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:01:57

But Come back to TV. Podcasts are down.

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:00

Exactly. We're actually, Don and I are in agreement. This is great. It's less noise. It's less noise. Get in here.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:02:08

It is a much better opportunity for

Brett Johnson [: 00:02:10

people who

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:02:11

are serious about Yeah. Launching podcasts or maintaining their podcast to continue what they're doing because there's less noise getting in the way. There's less, new just launched. Check out my podcast online. There's fewer people doing it. It's still a ton of podcast being launched, and AI is making it easier. I think you're probably gonna hear a lot more AI new AI podcast podcast launching. Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:02:34

But the fact that the number's down a bit last month, I don't know if that's the start of a trend or not. Maybe just May was a rough time for people to start a podcast. I I'll be curious to see, what this group says for June numbers, but I I don't think it's a bad thing. I don't think anybody that's listening needs to hear that and go, oh, man. Is it already on its way out? Did I jump in too late? No. You're you're fine. You're fine. Come on in.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:02:59

The water's fine.

Brett Johnson [: 00:03:00

Right. Well, you've got another statistic you can take a look at as well too that if you look at the the total number of active or total number of podcasts in the system. Okay. So we're talking 5 to 6, maybe upwards of 7,000,000 podcast available out there. And let's shave yeah. Yeah. Anyway yeah. And then let's shave off those that have already, ended.

Brett Johnson [: 00:03:20

The the, the podcasts that are, you know, a a audio drama an audio drama or something like it. Their their season's done. They're done you know? So let's bring that number back down to maybe 3,000,000 podcasts available. If you look at who's actively publishing on a monthly basis, that number's around 3 100, 350,000. So if you look at that number, you're only really competing against 300, maybe a half a 1000000 podcasts at the most. So if you look at realistic numbers, don't look at the big number. Look at kind of weeding it down. The competition, yes, it's strong, but it's those that stick it out and keep going that win.

Brett Johnson [: 00:03:59

Just keep publishing and get started and get going with it. Get I

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:04:02

mean, when you're talking about when you're talking about the podcast that people listen to, I don't know what the latest status on how many, podcasts people subscribe to, but let's let's use me as an example, and I subscribe in the high end. I've I've probably got 25 podcasts I subscribe to, and I probably listen to 5 on a regular basis. So when you're talking about Sessions of podcasts are out there, the fact that there's 10,000 fewer of them, that doesn't impact what you're doing. You weren't going to get most of those listeners anyway. Don't worry about it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:34

Right. You are. Yeah. Exactly.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:04:36

Don't be the guy that does the 5 episodes and then vanishes. Like, keep

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:40

going. Yeah. Do your thing. Do your thing. And then speaking of that, there was another article that, came out from Signal Hill Insights

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:04:48

that This one we don't agree as well.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:50

Right. So the the there. So let's get into a conversation on

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:04:54

this one. Back to normal.

Brett Johnson [: 00:04:55

Right. Podcast consumption is undercounted due to co listening according to that, well, it's actually from Cumulus Media and Signal Hill Insights. It's a spring 2024 report.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:05:07

This stat this new statistic is coming from a radio broadcast company talking about co I Exactly. Names though. I'm so surprised.

Brett Johnson [: 00:05:15

Oh, yeah. Amazing. Amazing that but, I I think there's some I think there's some truth to this depending on the podcast. And so they're saying podcast consumption is undercounted due to co listing with friends, family, and children. 14% of the weekly podcast audience say they frequently listen with others. 14 percent is not a ton of undercounting, but I get it. I mean, the co listing profile varies by genre. Consumers who frequently co listen make up a large proportion of the kids' family genre, 31%.

Brett Johnson [: 00:05:47

That I get. I I I can understand that. I can see that.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:05:50

And that's if you're listening to a kid's podcast in the car with your kid. I still remember my nephew watched YouTube, and he watched this, channel that was angry orange, something like it was something like angry orange or irritating orange or whatever it was. Yeah. And he watched that by himself. He watched a ton of it, but he watched it by himself. There was not parental oversight for every single piece of content. Neither was there when I was growing up. My mom couldn't be there to watch everything I watched on TV with me.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:06:20

And the co listening. You know, radio is notorious for saying that their numbers and ratings are underreported because people are listening in a car and there's more than 1 person listening. Or somebody's playing the radio in an office, you know, you've got 10 people listening, not just one that they'd be counted for in ratings. Well, being as someone who has worked in an office, someone has had control of the radio, or listen to, streaming on their in their cubicle without headphones, which I think is rude. You didn't have 10 people listening Don. They weren't co listening. They may be captive listeners. They were certainly annoyed listeners because not everybody can agree on one station or piece of content to listen to, but everybody else put their headphones in and turned up the volume higher.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:07:09

I mean, I think co listening is a deceptive, number. I think it's gonna be catchy, and they're gonna they're gonna wave it around like a a brand new toy. Yeah. And I think that it probably is correct to some extent. I mean, if I'm if we're on a road trip together, me and my wife, may listen to a podcast. But there's some wheeling and dealing and negotiating going on about which podcast we're gonna listen to and for how long, and, oh my god. This episode sucks. Which Don another one? So it's easier for us to agree on what TV show to watch than there is for, which one for, which podcast for us to co listen to.

Brett Johnson [: 00:07:48

Right. The second category is rewatch podcasts. So I that kinda surprises me. I I I don't know what category I was thinking that would be number 2, but to rewatch podcast. So but because that kind of a is an odd number too because, well, you know

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:08:05

Rewatch is in, hey. That episode was so good. I wanna listen to it again.

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:09

Actually, I from what I'm understanding, the rewatch podcast would be, like the whole series on The Office, and they're they're going episode by episode in a deep dive into each episode. So it it's that or it could be

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:08:23

Oh, wait. Wait. Wait. A season old. Not that a pot not that a listener is listening to an episode more than once. The rewatch theme is a category. Oh, yeah. I Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:08:33

Those are definitely cropping up because the, the stars, the celebrities, the actors have gotten into it now.

Brett Johnson [: 00:08:39

Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:08:40

They I just saw that there was a new podcast launched by, some of the people who starred in NCIS because they're getting ready to launch a new NCIS series that follows 2 of the characters that had that left the show. So those 2 actors are going back and rewatching the entire first season, first series, prior to the launch of their new show. So it's a great promotional vehicle for them. I love it whenever the actors do a rewatch of their own shows. It was a lot of fun. There was one that it had a couple of the guys who were on MASH, the the guy who played the cook, Igor Don on MASH. And then he would have a guest star on that was in a guest episode of MASH, and he was rewatching. And they're kinda fun.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:09:24

The West Wing was a really good one too. They had the West Wing West Wing actors on there. So, yeah, I can see how that's emerging as a category, especially with the actors because their agents are saying, hey, you need to get into this. Alright. One of the more successful ones that I'm seeing not just as a podcast, but as a Idea cast on YouTube are, Smallville. The guy the actor that played, Clark Kent and the actor who played Lex Luther are do rewatching the whole series together and bringing on the their their co stars. It's a cool concept.

Brett Johnson [: 00:09:53

Yeah. I but, you know, and there's a measure of this I agree with you too. I need we need to be careful how, how what the the the co listing percentage or the ratio here. Because we both talked about this too, radio and and print In their heyday, we're going way out of whack in regards to the the co reading or how many times was a a print, a magazine read.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:10:14

Yeah. You

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:14

know, gotta watch that number.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:10:16

I mean, I worked for crazy. I worked for our local, newspaper here for, several years, and you they would shove that number down your throat. Like, oh, yeah. Yeah. It's not just one subscriber that you're counting. You have to count, like, the 10 or 12 people that are gonna read that newspaper after that first person's done with it because, you know, they're everybody in the house is gonna read it even if not the whole thing. You know, the kids are reading the comics, dad's reading Experts, and then then they take it to work with them. And, you know, people pick it up at work to read the sports section, the business section, and it gets carried around.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:10:52

It's just we can't even count the number how high it is. We're gonna say it's 12.

Brett Johnson [: 00:10:59

So if we could

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:11:00

You know, when it gets thrown in the recycling bin, the Circle gonna when they pick it up, they're gonna look at the headline. You know, that's number 13 there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:08

Right.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:11:08

If we get fish in it and, you know, the fish are gonna read it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:11:14

If we start to get into double digits in regards regards to the co listening, podcast consumption, run away from that number. Don't even use it in anything you do that, you know well, our download numbers are 10,000, but the, the latest statistic is that, you know, what, 5 people usually. So let's just say it's 50,000.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:11:33

Unless you have some sort of some sort of, social proof that that's happening. Like, if people are posting, oh, me and my friends tune in all the time. We, you know, we carpool, and we listen to to this murder mystery podcast every time we go to great. Take that. Use it. Assume that if one person said it, 3 other people are doing it and didn't tell anybody, but don't just pull numbers out of the air and Yeah. Tell people that, oh, we've got 3 times as many listeners because because Cumulus says 3 people listen to a podcast.

Brett Johnson [: 00:12:09

Right. Yeah. Exact exactly. Another thing, you know, I I've not heard anybody say this to me that they have found a podcast via YouTube, But it's it's stating the world's entertainment, you know, YouTube is the dominant podcast discovery platform.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:12:26

Yeah. I don't I don't get it. I mean, not just Robles. Their players set up that when you open another screen in front of it, it stops. So I for me, podcasts are background audio. And I'll even take, like, there's, this old marketing podcast. It's an audio podcast. I've listened to it for years.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:12:46

I love it. Well, they saw the same stats. You know, they're into podcasting, and they said, great. We're gonna do our show on, on YouTube as well. So they have their same weekly program. The only difference is when he says, Guy. I'm gonna pull this up on my screen. If you're not watching the YouTube video, you can't see the thing that they're showing you, but usually they're describing it.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:13:08

So I I did try and watch their podcast 2 or 3 times on YouTube, I knew I was gonna be in front of my computer for an extended period of time because it's an it's an hour long show. But every time you open something in front of it or you have to minimize it, YouTube stops, and it does the same thing on your phone if you switch screens on the phone. Unless you're a paid, like, a YouTube premium subscriber, which does allow you to play stuff in the background. I'm not watching it. It's I I listen to podcast while I'm doing something else.

Brett Johnson [: 00:13:41

Right. Exactly. Again, which I get that. Yeah. Which leads to, you know, this statistic from this research too is half of heavy podcast consumers have a side hustle, which mean podcasts are an ideal platform for brands to reach entrepreneurs and those with several Robles. Now if you have several roles and you're Don entrepreneur, you're not sitting in front of YouTube watching a video. You're not doing it.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:14:00

Half half heavy podcast consumers have a set yep. Okay. Yeah. That would Yep. Because that means you have more time to listen to it as well. You're doing something up. I think you could also say that half heavy podcast, you could just say that have a desk job and work in a cubicle all day too. I mean, it's Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:16

You could. Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:14:16

Unless they've got some other statistic as part of a survey that said that. That's that's a large percentage of an audience. You know, what Don they cons do they say what they consider heavy? I don't see a number.

Brett Johnson [: 00:14:26

Right. Exactly. And and, you know, again, you you have take all this research with a grain of salt because like you said at the beginning, this is coming from a broadcast company. So you don't there these questions, the answers that that are coming from the questions are not necessarily a focus of podcasting specifically. It's more of a radio research, and they're asking some podcast questions as well Well, and within it.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:14:48

And survey results are only as good as Yeah. Profile of the people who complete the survey too. So Right. Right. You know, Don they who are the people? So it's it's encouraging. It's great to hear. It gives you the perspective to go, yeah. You're right.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:15:02

You know, more than one person could be listening to your podcast at the same time. Do I think that's grounds for you to go, oh my god. Let's double our audience size. No. I it's not there. It's just not there.

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:14

And and I would suggest, okay, listener. If if if you know your your podcast is listened to by more than one person at one time, let us know. I would love to know the case study.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:15:22

And how are you doing?

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:23

Yeah. How do you know?

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:15:24

How do you find out? You know?

Brett Johnson [: 00:15:25

Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. You found an article from Amy Poehler. Talk about that.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:15:31

Yeah. So she's got a new podcast, which is which is pretty fun. I I just think she's hilarious. So to see her get into podcasting is great. I I love it when funny celebrities get into it. I think comedians make the best podcasters. But she was being interviewed and was talking about how, she's finding podcasting as a medium to connect with people again. You know, here's somebody who came from a stand up background.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:15:57

You know, she's she's doing, small, venue stage shows with, the Yes, And would would be in improv. Mhmm. So she comes from an improv, but she's getting immediate feedback. So she found she's found podcast as a place to connect with these audiences. She was on TV. She was in movies. She's a movie she's a filmmaker and writer. So her quote from this I I found interesting was, I would argue that podcasts have replaced a lot of television in terms of the feeling of having a lot of people you know be in your space.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:16:32

Polar said, we used to watch TV and visit the characters we like, and I think we do that now with podcasts. We wanna check-in and see how someone's doing. And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that Polar comes across as very accessible. You know, you can get a hold of her on social Idea. Her characters come across as very personable. And I think she's probably seeing a lot of success in in getting great social feedback on this. And I think she's right. When I hear people have conversations about the podcast they listen to, there will typically be somebody in the room, that listens to a similar podcast, if not the same podcast.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:17:08

I noticed that a lot with the the true crime. You know, there there's the popular ones, and it seems like everybody listens to the most popular ones, and they learn about them from each other. So if they aren't listening to the exact one somebody else in the room they're having a conversation with does, they're gonna sample it after that person gave it an endorsement. So while I would not consider that co listening as reported in the the article the previous article, I still think it is, people who are having conversations about the same episode that they watched but not together or listened to but not together. I think that's the water cooler talk. You know, did you see that episode of Survivor last night? I think it goes back to that where we do tend to enjoy a lot of the most popular content, and then we wanna talk about that contact with that content with other people to see to get their perspective on it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:17:59

Right. I I know there's a lot of talk about, the the, the dislike of so many big names coming into the podcast space. But I think it leads toward what you just said. You've got okay. So let's take a look at the lineup of TV shows. There are certain TV shows that you don't know who the the stars are, but they're built up because maybe they're sands sandwiched between 2 big heavy hitter shows. So let's allow those stars that are coming into the space to broaden the listenership of podcasting, and possibly you you you take advantage of that wave.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:18:34

So do you have a do you have a big name you're referring to when you said that they, like, they were getting some flack for coming in?

Brett Johnson [: 00:18:39

No. It's it's it's chatter on, you know, podcast Facebook spaces that they just, like, oh, all these big name comedians and such. Oh. Oh, you know, it it it's it's all they're doing, you know, pod they're afraid that they're losing listeners or that listeners are coming into the podcast space just to listen to to like an Amy Poehler. But Guy I think it's shortsighted in saying that going, yeah, but now they're in the space listening to podcasts that maybe they would never would before. They found something they liked or who they liked, and now they're gonna get addicted to listen to a podcast.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:19:09

And especially if they're if the negative feedback is coming from the fact that more comedians are getting into it or more, actors are. You have to keep in mind that that's how TV programming got rolling there for a while. It's like, for a while, they said they're just handing TV shows to comedians. You just gotta go out to Hollywood, and if you're a comedian, they'll just hand you a TV show because comedians with TV shows had it was very formulaic. Mhmm. They could come in and basically be one of the characters that they did a stick on for stand up routine, and their show became about that character that they talked about. I mean,

Brett Johnson [: 00:19:46

Roseanne. Probably Tim Allen. Tim

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:19:48

Allen. Tim Allen, Tienfeld. Yep. Like, all of a sudden, every comedian got a show, and I think that they're seeing that with podcasting now. Only you can find out much more quickly if a podcast is going to be successful. You don't have the production cost. You don't have the contractual cost. They can do it from anywhere.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:20:07

So rather than, wow, this comedian has to give up their, their stand up touring to go to Hollywood and film a half hour sitcom for a couple of years, they can tour and do a podcast from wherever they are and continue that. And they don't need permission from a studio to launch a podcast. They can do that themselves, and they can support it with their fans who wish that they were turning out more content. I think that the people who like that kind of content are going to continue to listen to it, and it doesn't matter if it's a big must see TV success story. Yeah. You don't need to have nearly the audience. You know, you're back to that 1,000 true fans theory of a comedian only needs a 1,000 people who loves what they do that they'll subscribe to the the Sessions hour of the show, or they'll subscribe to the behind the scenes or the interview with the Circle the costar for that episode. You're if you hate it, I'm sorry to tell you, you're gonna get a lot more of it because more of them are gonna jump on board.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:04

Yeah. Yeah. And they don't like it to well, they're not in it for the long run. So what? They're they're in it. I I I I What's the long run?

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:21:13

Like, 10 seasons? You're right. There won't be 10 seasons. Could they do a summer of summer laugh series? Or

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:20

Right.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:21:20

What I

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:21

don't Don what the long run is. What do you think? Don don't either. They're in it for the run.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:21:25

You know? Care. Enjoy it while they're there, then leave. Yeah.

Brett Johnson [: 00:21:27

And I think it may end up being kind of the the old school podcasters that were in at the very beginning or they like it because it's commercial free and they don't like the commercials part of this, And they're not the they're the purest of the podcast space, and it's becoming more far and few between. Maybe and I don't necessarily think it's the old guard, the OGs that are in it, but it's that people that are in it for the the uniqueness and the, the the piece that podcasting gives. Like, all of a sudden, this this chatter, this this noise is coming in from comedians and and such, and they're only in it for maybe a season. It's like, so what?

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:22:00

So listen. I mean, I'll go back to anybody. You complained about a TV show. It wasn't if I hated a TV show, I didn't watch the TV show. I didn't watch it every week and then complain about it. Like, I just didn't watch it. Like, oh, yeah. I Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:22:13

Come on.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:14

Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:22:14

There are so many shows out there that you can listen to whenever you wanna listen to them. Why are you obsessing over something that you don't like? Don't don't listen to them. It wasn't for you. He didn't make it for you.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:27

Right. Especially when it wasn't even in your category of podcast. You know, you're a business podcast. You complain about a comedian. But but what? What?

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:22:35

And ads. I mean, I wish all I had to complain about were ads and podcast, Skip. Like, I the best thing ever in I'm gonna complain when the podcast software stops, when they eliminate the skip button.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:47

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:22:48

Then what will you do? Because I love ads in podcast because I can skip them.

Brett Johnson [: 00:22:53

Right. Exactly. Exactly. Well, you know, and that leads to your next, article you found about, the effectiveness of ads in podcast or at least how to set them up Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:23:03

To be

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:03

effective, maybe.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:23:05

Let me reference this article with a caveat. Please do. The article title is 4 essential strategies for podcast advertising success. This is good advice. You and I went over the article. The points are very good.

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:18

And

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:23:18

then when you look at the source of this content, it's coming from a company called Odysee, which is a radio broadcast company just fired which has filed for bankruptcy. They have fired staff, they're closing down and selling off stations, and they file for financial protection from their, creditors. So, you know, I prefer my podcast advertising advice to come from companies who are successful at it, but I will say that this is good advice. Maybe they should have followed more of it, and they could still be in business.

Brett Johnson [: 00:23:50

Awesome. Like, exactly. Good point.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:23:53

Good point. Yeah. Good point, guys. Yeah. Maybe Maybe. You guys should do this. Right. Right.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:23:59

It's 4 quick points. Let me run down the points real quick, and then we go back and and dissect them if you want. But, so first, so 4 essential strategies for, podcast advertising success. And I used a bit I used a bit of AI to to put together the summary on this. I wanted to test this out for our show. Yeah. So this summary is courtesy of Google Gemini. The article outlines 4 essential strategies for creating successful podcast ad campaigns.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:24:28

First, it highlights the broad and engaged audience that podcasts attract, emphasizing the opportunity for advertisers to connect with listeners in an intimate and receptive way. And this goes right back to the article we just talked about for Amy Poehler. Right? You you can connect with audiences in ways that TV shows just can't. Right. The the next best thing would be, like, a live a live stand up, a live audience.

Brett Johnson [: 00:24:50

Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:24:51

Second, the variety of ad formats available. You know, you've got traditional placements to more creative integrations like Host, Red endorsements, and custom contact. We, you and I, always talk about the opportunity for custom content. Mhmm. Because like I said, I'll skip an ad. If it comes on and it's an ad, you go, we'll be right back after we pay some bills. I'm like, let somebody else pay for your bills because I'm not listening to your ads. Skip.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:25:16

Skip. Skip. Yeah. But if you're saying, hey. You know what? I'd love having Brett here in the studio. We're gonna come back. We're gonna talk to Brett next. I'm gonna ask him my Tabasco hot seat five questions.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:25:32

Well, you just gave me a brand impression for your content because, Brett, these questions are as hot as Tabasco songs. Give me your give me your Sessions. It's gotta go quick. So brand it. Brand the things. Brand the content. You know, this is the, Joe Smith Ford trivia question of the day. Those kinds of things.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:25:57

It's the Midas car care tip. Was notorious for those things. They did a great job of getting these brand impressions without having to play an ad every time you did it. So while I might have skipped your pre roll ad for Midas, you're talking to the interview about car care tips and your car care tips segment is is sponsored by Midas. I can't escape from that. I miss the content. So definitely go for those. And host read endorsements and testimonials always get, more audience, more credibility with your audience than just the cut and paste ads that they can hear on every single radio station and or podcast.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:26:37

3rd, the importance of measuring campaign success through the entire marketing funnel, allowing brands to track listener engagement and optimizing their campaigns for maximum return on investment. If you're selling ads in your podcast and you are not focused on delivering measurable results for your audience, your client is not going to advertise with you more than once. Because, Brett, what's the number one reason people don't renew their advertising content? What's the easiest again?

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:04

I would think it would be no ROI. No return on investment. Didn't work. Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:27:11

Didn't work. And didn't work is customer speak for I didn't see any ROI. And I also love the fact that this talks about the different steps of the marketing funnel. You're gonna have some advertisers who are interested in leads. They just want the top of the funnel. You have other people who want, to sell something through. They wanna make sure that they can look and say that advertising brought me direct orders. You know how you find out what your customer's looking for? You ask them questions.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:27:36

Right?

Brett Johnson [: 00:27:38

Right.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:27:38

And then finally, the article stressed the power of collaboration showcasing how brands can partner with podcasts and other hosts to develop unique and memorable ad experiences. And I wouldn't just say ad experiences, content and content experiences. I mean, Brett, you're working with the the circle of experts. Right. We all have our own separate brands, but once once a week, you get together with one member of the circle of experts, and we team up to talk about content.

Brett Johnson [: 00:28:05

Alright. Exactly. So, yeah, I'd you know, I I do wanna break down a couple of things. You know, you the second point about exploring the variety of ad formats, We have talked about the sponsorable Sessions, Don infinitum. And I because nobody's doing it. Nobody's, And, again, I don't listen to every podcast. It's impossible because there are 100 of thousands of them. But I don't know of anyone talking about the success of using that, so therefore, I'm I'm assuming no one is having thought about doing it.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:28:33

I'll give you a great example how nobody's the marketing podcast I talked to you about. They've been doing marketing forever. They're both marketing gurus. They're brilliant Guy, but they joined the HubSpot Podcast Network. That's how popular podcast is. You know what hub you know what they do? They play free ads back to back. 3 ads. 3, 4 ads.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:28:52

Back to back to back to back. It's so skip, skip, skip, skip. I'm not listening to the ads. They do a segment, they do 2 segments at the end. 1 is, the hit or miss, you know, like the win of the week or the loser of the week, and they do, like a success story. K. Neither one of those is sponsored Guy one of the ads that they ran. They ran 4 ads.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:29:18

Make one of them a sponsor of your other segment. So at least when I skipped it, I would have heard the hit this week's hits and misses brought to you by and I can't even tell you who the sponsor is because I skipped the ad. Mhmm.

Brett Johnson [: 00:29:31

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's it's not even branded that you can't, as as a listener, tell me, oh, yeah. The the the it's the the Louisville miss, Louisville slugger miss, in that in that, you know, the the the that marketing podcast. Exactly. I I I the only thing I can think of, maybe this might be a thought of why it's not being done is because that that segment is baked in. You can't take it out, you know, digitally. But who cares ultimately? Because there's a lot married to that branded segment that it's a long term contract probably.

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:05

So and it's it you can ask for more money because it's a it's a it's a segment that that sponsor owns, quote, unquote.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:30:13

For as long as they'll pay for it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:14

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:30:15

Somebody else because you can go, hey. These guys sponsored for 3 years. Don't you wanna jump on? They they're giving it up. Jump in.

Brett Johnson [: 00:30:21

Yeah. And I think, you know, the second point that came up in regards to the, the the the measurable pieces, the ROI is podcasters need to continue to get smarter and smarter and smarter and not just get sponsorships from downloads. It has to be a full market press. Yes. A podcast and an email newsletter and whatever else you can put that sponsor Don, that's a touch point that makes it easy as possible for that intended customer to click through and purchase or sign up for something or whatever the case might be. Totally missing the mark on that. I don't see that in, again, of what podcast newsletters I receive, any marketable connection between this their newsletter and their podcast and any sponsors that are there. We miss this brand opportunity.

Brett Johnson [: 00:31:10

Oh my gosh. It's it's easy. It's easy. It's easy.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:31:14

Morning Brew started out as a newsletter, and their newsletter is sponsored. At the very top, you got a sponsor for that for that, for that issue. But then as you scroll down, there's little segments, and a lot of times those segments are brought to you by a sub sponsor. They have a successful podcast. They do not break down the sponsorships in their podcast audio like they do with these ships inside the newsletter. Even though they may covering they may be covering some of the same content. They will have a sponsor for that episode of the podcast, but one of the things I like in each episode of their newsletter is the trivia question they ask because it's usually marketing related. That would translate easily into a podcast segment right before the end, or right in the middle before you do the commercial break or when you come back from the commercial break.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:32:05

And you could tag in another sponsor on that, and it's in context. They don't need to add an ad. Just add a brand mention to that content, and I think they'd get more response. I think that brand would get more response.

Brett Johnson [: 00:32:17

Yeah. I agree. I think, we're just not being creative enough with the with the the the items that you're already creating. If you're creating a newsletter, why aren't you including the sponsor in that Yep. As a touch point? Because again, keep in mind, when we're listening to a podcast, show notes are important. Totally get it. Yes. There are reference points, there are there are time stamps, but we're in the mindset of listening to a podcast, not necessarily clicking on the link at that point in time to sign up for or to follow or to see more about the sponsor.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:32:48

Well, in a lot of it, we can't. I've and even, again, the the, this old marketing, they have great show notes. A lot of people say check our episode for show notes, then you go to the show notes, there's nothing in there. Nothing. The, this old marketing is a great job with the show notes. But But you know where I'm listening to the podcast? In my car. Yeah. So I can't I can't go in and look at the show notes.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:33:11

And you know what happens when I'm done with your episode? My podcast software deletes it. I don't I'm not gonna go back and look at the show notes of a past episode because it's gone. So your newsletter that comes to me should have that. Hey. If you missed the link for the show notes, click here, go to the blog, they're all listed, or include them in there. A show notes sponsor is a sponsorable segment waiting to happen.

Brett Johnson [: 00:33:35

Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:33:35

Hey. If you missed the show notes, somebody we know you guys are driving. You can't click on it right now. You're watch for the weekly newsletter. Make sure you subscribe to the newsletter. It's a separate subscription from the from the, the podcast. And the show note link is gonna get sent to you, the the same day the podcast comes out. You need the link, go back to your newsletter.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:33:54

It's right there. And that could be sponsorable. Every time you say check the show notes, that could be sponsored by somebody.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:00

Yeah. Exactly.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:34:01

Guy brand sponsor, not a Sessions ad sponsor, a quick mention sponsor.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:06

Right. And and and like you said, put it all in the vein of we're doing this for you listener. We're We're doing it for you that we're making it easy We know you can't click on link while you're walking the dog or whatever you the phones in your pocket

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:34:18

Don't click on the link. Right? Don't Like, hey. If you're driving, don't click on the link.

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:24

Don't. Because we're brought to you by Nationwide Insurance, Auto Insurance. You know what I mean? We don't want you to get

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:34:29

in an accident. Great sponsor. Auto insurance. What a great sponsor. Yeah. Yeah. You

Brett Johnson [: 00:34:34

know, to just think of the take it the next step. Take it the next step. And and, you know, this is part of what you do and I do is that get the podcaster out of their head and think about, okay, let's get creative. Think about take it that next step. What what do you want the listener to do? What would make it easier for the listener to do? What would it make it easier for a sponsor to be a part you you that you come up with a great idea that it's so good that they just they're scratching their head going, how can we say no to this? How we have to be a part of this.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:35:06

And one of the things that I I think we probably both did in radio was we come up with in 2 ways you you came up with a radio sponsorship, segment. You went after an industry like insurance. What can we come up with that we can, pitch to insurance, companies and insurance agents? And you come up with it once, and you could pitch it to all the agents till somebody buys it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:28

Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:35:28

Right? So come up with the segment. I think the show notes thing with the insurance thing is brilliant. I I think that you go, hey. We're the host. We'd love you to check out our show Robles, but our sponsor, Nationwide Insurance, does not want you to click on a link where you're in the car. Right? So

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:42

Yeah. The legal eagles over there said, do not say this.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:35:45

Not click on the show notes during our sponsorship. Right. So, like, great. How many insurance companies can you come up with off the top of your head that you could go pitch that to until somebody says yes?

Brett Johnson [: 00:35:57

So you

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:35:57

put together that package, tell them what it includes, how many times you Sessions the the show notes in your episode, which even without a sponsor, people talk about show notes 3 times on average in in their episode. Right? Beginning, middle, and end. Minimum. Minimum. And then probably after, every time a, if a guest says, oh, I got a free download. Oh, we'll link to that download. Oh, you have a book out? Oh, we'll link to that book in our show notes. So we'll link to that that book in our show notes that are sponsored by Nationwide Insurance.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:36:24

So don't click on it now. Your insurance rates will go up.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:28

Exactly. Exactly.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:36:30

But, oh Guy that's a that's a perfect sponsorship category, and you could create that sponsorship pitch, that package one time and pitch it to every single one of them until somebody says yes.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:42

Right. And and guess what? It doesn't mess with your content. A lot of people don't wanna put ads because they feel it's gonna influence their content. This has nothing to do with your content Absolutely nothing. It's talking about

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:36:53

it's enhancing it. It makes it stand out.

Brett Johnson [: 00:36:55

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:36:56

Funny, and people remember funny things. They don't remember a 15 second ad that they felt forced to sit through Mhmm. Or did not.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:04

Right? It's simple.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:37:06

You've got us if you have a fixed ad spot that's always 15 seconds or always 30 Sessions, nobody's listening to it. They skipped it.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:16

Yeah. They they they will. Yeah. So it's a very easy to skip through, or they're they're not listening to it in real time. They're listening to it at 2 times speed or 1 and a half times speed. So it it's it's not even, you didn't create it to be listened to 1 and a half times speed. You know, it's just gonna go too fast. Yeah.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:37:31

But I don't know which, podcast, app you use. I use PocketCast. Yeah. I use PocketCast, and PocketCast allows me to start a podcast however many seconds in that I want. So if you've got a 30 second pre roll, I can skip past your 30 second pre roll. I don't even have to hit the skip button. I just tell it to start after 30 seconds.

Brett Johnson [: 00:37:54

Yeah. Yeah. Overcast, but which is my preferred. It doesn't have that. But, you know, it's simple enough. There's the 15 second or, you know, you can assign your push back or or push forward button. Yeah. So so if if if a listener wants some more ideas, how are they gonna get a hold of you?

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:38:09

I don't know. This week, I think they need to call you. That insurance one was brilliant. I I'd love that one. Why didn't I think of that before? It's easy to find I have my moments. Let's put it that way. Yep. Yep.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:38:20

It is easy to find me at Don Idea. That's the best place to find me. All of my links to all my other projects are right from there. So Super. You're looking for Don the Idea Guy, you find him at donnieideaguide.com.

Brett Johnson [: 00:38:31

Super. You can get me at, www.mypodcastguy.com. My booking calendar is there. If you Don to learn more about what we do though, you can find that at Circle 270 Media Podcast Consultants. But, yeah, that's that's the easiest ways to get a hold of of myself or Don. So please do. And, Don, thanks for joining me again. I appreciate it.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:38:49

Or or click the show notes.

Brett Johnson [: 00:38:51

Yeah. There you go.

Don The Idea Guy [: 00:38:52

No. Wait. No. Look at that.